D&D General The First Demise of TSR: Gygax's Folly

[Dire Bare]

I think the essay is true in that Williams saved the company, and in other sources I've read she was very kind to at least some of the staff. But the renown alumni of TSR have very little that is good to say about her.

Her issue was not understanding the business. All My Children Game and the forced output of Buck Roger's comes to mind.

The TSR Buck Rogers franchise was Nepotism 101, for sure. And ultimately, like many of TSR's product lines, fizzled out and was mis-managed . . .

But the initial launch that included an RPG, board game, and novels (comics too?) was AWESOME. Or at least, I thought so at the time. Still have the board game buried in the storage unit, should dig that out . . .

 

[Mournblade94]

The TSR Buck Rogers franchise was Nepotism 101, for sure. And ultimately, like many of TSR's product lines, fizzled out and was mis-managed . . .

But the initial launch that included an RPG, board game, and novels (comics too?) was AWESOME. Or at least, I thought so at the time. Still have the board game buried in the storage unit, should dig that out . . .

Im not personally complaining about that. I had ALOT of the Buck Roger's sets that I no longer have due to moving losses. Probably in the same box as all my Dark Sun stuff.

My Buck Roger's input comes from the Forgotten. Realms panels at Gencon where the devs talked about how much they just didn't want to work on it. They claim there was continual signals the Market Wasn't there for it.

I personally am surprised with all the IP being revived the Dilles haven't capitalized on this.

It's ripe for an Amazon show.

 

[MGibster]

My Buck Roger's input comes from the Forgotten. Realms panels at Gencon where the devs talked about how much they just didn't want to work on it. They claim there was continual signals the Market Wasn't there for it.

I was under the impression TSR wasn't particularly adept at understanding what the market was for anything they were selling.

 

[Alzrius]

Im not personally complaining about that. I had ALOT of the Buck Roger's sets that I no longer have due to moving losses. Probably in the same box as all my Dark Sun stuff.

My Buck Roger's input comes from the Forgotten. Realms panels at Gencon where the devs talked about how much they just didn't want to work on it. They claim there was continual signals the Market Wasn't there for it.

I personally am surprised with all the IP being revived the Dilles haven't capitalized on this.

It's ripe for an Amazon show.

They don't own the IP anymore.

 

[mamba]

My Buck Roger's input comes from the Forgotten. Realms panels at Gencon where the devs talked about how much they just didn't want to work on it. They claim there was continual signals the Market Wasn't there for it.

given that TSR did no market research, I wonder if this is not simply a matter of ‘we did not want to do this’ more than anything. Not sure what market signals there were, but TSR ignoring them would be on par as well

 

[Clint_L]

The TSR Buck Rogers franchise was Nepotism 101, for sure.

It really wasn't. Having the company you own publish games and books based on IP you own is not nepotism.

 

[Mournblade94]

given that TSR did no market research, I wonder if this is not simply a matter of ‘we did not want to do this’ more than anything. Not sure what market signals there were, but TSR ignoring them would be on par as well

It's weird because EVERY box set came with a market research card. I never sent them back in fact i found 3 of them the other day.

I think that was the extent of it.

 

[Mannahnin]

The All My Children game was under Gygax's tenure. He wrote about it in Dragon 101 and TSR's moves to establish more of a presence for general-audience games.

Yeah, all the worst and most scattershot "diversification" and/or paying off of relatives was under Gygax and the Blumes. Greenfield Needlewoman makes the Buck Rogers stuff look downright respectable and logical by comparison.

 

[Dire Bare]

It really wasn't. Having the company you own publish games and books based on IP you own is not nepotism.

Yeah, "nepotism" isn't quite the correct term, but it's close enough for me. Instead of promoting a family member, Williams "promoted" an IP owned by the family.

Buck Rogers wasn't developed at TSR because it was going to be a good franchise for TSR, it was to take advantage of the Dille family ownership of Buck Rogers (of which Williams was a part).

Not exactly nepotism or corruption or anything quite that severe, but . . . not fully an ethical decision. IMO.

Not sure how well the initial releases did in sales, but I enjoyed them. The later revamp done by TSR was terrible and killed the Buck Rogers franchise there.

 

[Mannahnin]

It's weird because EVERY box set came with a market research card. I never sent them back in fact i found 3 of them the other day.

I think that was the extent of it.

Yeah, this is one of the confusing bits of history. I remember those customer feedback cards too. And there was a long period of soliciting and reading customer input, with a huge survey in Dragon Magazine, for 2E AD&D.

There is that Ryan Dancey article from 2000 where he says they had no voice of the customer. But it doesn't seem like that can be entirely accurate. And we've heard from multiple sources that some of the boxed sets and other products actually lost money per unit sold because their awareness of costs was so bad and divorced from the folks pricing the sets.

I wonder if this is something one of the historians will dig more into.